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Okay, thank you. I need some
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Welcome to Sputnik, orbiting the world
with me, George Galloway, and me,
Gayatri. There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq
before George Bush and Tony Blair sent
hundreds of thousands of Western
soldiers illegally to invade and occupy
it. There is now thousands of them, and
they're sweeping all before them. ISIS,
the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, was
actually recently expelled by the
al-Qaeda chief Iman al- Zawahi for
being, and I quote, too sectarian, too
extreme, unquote. I've seen no reason to
disbelieve him. In the last few days,
many of Iraq's most important cities and
historic regions like Ninoa have fallen
to ISIS with scarsely a shot being
fired. In Mosul and Trit, 35,000 Iraqi
army soldiers threw down their weapons
and ran away in the face of 800 ISIS
fighters. Iraq's prime minister seems
certain to fall. The Iraqi state in real
danger of collapse. That would be the
crowning achievement, no doubt, of the
Bush and Blair war. Joining us now to
discuss what's happening in the land
where he was born is Londonbased Sabah
Mktar of the Arab Lawyers Network in
Britain. Dr. Sabah, thank you for uh
joining us. I know you don't accept my
characterization of the forces that are
sweeping all before them. We'll come to
that, I promise you. But describe, if
you would, the military situation now.
Either these are the best 800 fighters
in the world ever or something big is
really happening. I don't think they are
the best in the world. However, they are
professional leaders of the previous
Iraqi army. They are the generals of the
army leading forces, local forces. They
are the people of Musul. They are the
people of the towns and cities that have
fallen in their hands. They are not the
ISIS. They are not the Q-a. It's amazing
that three minutes after the entrance
into Musul, before anybody knew
anything, immediately Washington said it
was ISIS, it was Kyla and it was the
dash. This is the idea that how you
manipulate the news. I think it is wrong
because this is literally a revolution
of the people led by ex-military
officers. And to show you the result of
that one is if you take Fallujah.
Fallujah for a whole month Maliki with
all his forces including the air force
could not take back Feluja which is a
small town because of the military
capability. This is on the one side. On
the other side Maliki does not have an
army. He has mishmash
people who came together because they
want to live because they are sectarian
in their approaches. the people who have
taken over now Musul and they are moving
downwards. They are now on the entrance
northern entrance of Samara. So they've
taken all the towns from Musul down the
Tigris all the way to Samara. All these
areas it is not a fight between Maliki's
army and dash or ISIS or KQA or any of
these things. It may be a convenient way
of saying it because this is the Bush
doctrine. You accuse your enemy of being
the devil, the evil, and then your your
case is made. The situation in Iraq is
really this is a continuation of the
uprising which took place in the in the
west. Now the western forces are moving
toward Baghdad. Yesterday Baghdad
airport was bombed. So they are as close
as that. From the north they are moving
down. Maliki now is pleading with the
Americans to to come and intervene. I
don't think they will. I don't think the
uh Britain will intervene. I don't think
the Iranians can intervene because of
the various implications. The Kurds
certainly at the present moment are not
going to interfere. Nafi, both the the
speaker of the parliament and his
brother who was the governor of Musul
pleaded for a whole day with Mas
Barazani to send his troops into this
and he's not moving. Well, I I'm not
normally accused of being a proponent of
the Bush uh doctrine. uh and I'm not uh
and if it's a revolution of the people
as you describe it uh then it's a
revolution of the Sunni Muslim people.
There are no Shiites in the army that is
advancing and taking uh these uh cities.
But the majority of people in Iraq, at
least in the Arab part, are Shiites. So
what's this then? A recipe for civil
war. Are the Shiites going to fight the
Sunnis? The Maliki is trying now to get
the south to support him on the basis
that they are Shiats and you better come
with me because the Sunnis are going to
do that. They are not buying it in the
south. Certainly all the people in the
west and the north who are moving toward
Baghdad and the other cities have
absolutely no sectarian and you know
that it doesn't matter what anybody
think of the previous regimes from the
monarchy time when the British left Iraq
in the 20s until 2003. It's sectarianism
has never been institutionalized. It's
never been practiced or used by any of
the regimes, whether the monarchy, first
republic, second republic, or the bath.
No, I agree with that. But but ISIS, and
by the way, it's not me saying that
they're capturing these cities. And
neither is it Obama or Cameron that's
saying it. It's ISIS that are saying it
on their website. They're showing the
videos. They say, "This is our army." Of
course, they're definitely sectarian
because in Syria, where they also lay
territorial claim, they are on a
sectarian basis murdering large numbers
of people. There's no doubt in my mind
that ISIS and Q-Qaeda and the others are
all terrorist organizations. It doesn't
matter whether they are supported by
Saudi Arabia or by Iran or America. It
does not matter. Those are happens in
Syria.
So at the end of the day, those are
terrorist organizations. They have a
sectarian motive. How you present the
thing you I've seen it in Cairo on on
6th October bridge during the revolution
of CC. You saw three cars with a black
flag on Laah on it and saying and the
media was saying look we told you Kaida
is coming to Cairo. This is you can have
one camera taking one picture at one
time in one area and you say fine. And
have you ever heard a terrorist
organization who do not claim the
credit? So of course you get all these
mutilated pictures. This uh this army
that ran away uh indeed you you've
informed me many of them didn't even
engage. They took off their uniforms,
got into civilian clothes before uh
their enemy even arrived. The American
taxpayer spent scores of billions of
dollars so-called training them. Was
that all just a pmpkin village? Is there
nothing behind it? Certainly the a lot
of the billions which has been it was
stolen by their own people by the
American soldiers and they they bought
people with it. They gave it to thieves.
You had the the the sahe, you had the
neighborhood watch and all the rest of
it when they bought the the tribal
readers. They used to give them a lot of
money and those people they just take
the money and build buildings in in
Dubai and Aman and London and everywhere
else. The Americans have participated.
You look at the at the federal audit
office, the American federal office, and
it shows you how much money was stolen
by the Americans themselves. Even even
Bremer and his team when they were there
have talked to some of the auditing
firms who have done. So this money
although they say they've spent this
money on Iraq this money was not spent
on Iraq. Western policies is always we
talk about the billions and millions we
give to Africa and I don't know what but
in reality all the money it goes to the
white hall and to the office and to the
contractors and what is left the the
little pittance gets to the African or
the Arabs. for those people when they
spend the money on the training, they
didn't do any of that. So, it's a paper
tiger. It's paper thin. Uh presumably,
therefore, the road is open for whoever
these people that are on the march are
to march all the way to Baghdad. Is that
their intention? Yes, absolutely. This
is the intention. and they they would go
to about that and they are hoping that
some of the uprising in the south will
come up partly because the Iraqi people
now they are not even working on sector
they are really fed up of the killing
they the Shiats in the south are
suffering from Maliki just as much as
the people who are Sunnis but it's it's
it's what you talk about I could declare
myself the imam of the Muslims in London
and to hell with anybody who doesn't
believe me that doesn't make me the imam
of London so you can have somebody
saying you know we have Ji saying he's
talking on behalf of the Sunnis in Iraq
and none of the Sunnis recognize the
guy. In Iraq, the division is this.
You're either with the occupation with
all its facets including the so-called
political process or you want your
country back between the patriots and
both camps has Shiats, both camps have
Sunnis.
In this revolution that you describe,
what is the fate of Christians and other
minorities in Iraq going to be like? The
first step that has been taken by the
units which took uh Musul because Musul
is one of the centers of Christianity in
Iraq. The first step they've taken is to
protect all the Christian churches,
protected all the minorities. All the
areas where you have a very high
concentration of Christians, they have
put people to protect the area. Now, of
course, in in such a situation, you're
likely to have all sorts of criminals
and and and and and other thugs and and
terrorists. Everybody's going to be in
and everybody can produce a you know, I
could I'm sure anybody can have a camera
and make me hold the flag. It's it's
very easy. A black flag with three five
words in Arabic on it in white and that
makes me I could do that in London. I
I'll be arrested, but that's a different
issue.
Well, the uh the picture you paint is
obviously different to that which is
being portrayed in the media. And you
may be right. You've been right many
many times uh about Iraq. But protecting
Christians in Mosul uh would not be uh
would not square with the wholesale uh
anti-Christian and other religious
minority activities of ISIS in Syria. Uh
I think you can see the ISIS and
al-Qaeda types are undoubtedly involved
in this mix.
uh what's going to stop them hunting
down heretics or caffers uh in Iraq in
the way that they've done in Syria?
Well, because the problem in in in Iraq
is different from Syria. In Syria, you
have a situation where the government
there is still a a full blast government
which is using the the power and the
authorities.
In Iraq, you have a a nogo government
situation. Yeah. So now the one who are
protecting the minorities trying to give
at least to market themselves they have
to make the protection and that's why
they have explicitly gone for that. Now
they are they are working I understand
that they are working very hard on
trying to release the Turkish council
and his group because they want to show
themselves that's the the those people
who are whatever you want to call them.
You want to call them ISIS call them
ISIS. I don't mind the names, but I'm
telling you they are the military
council of Musul and they are the
military there are 18 military councils
in Iraq. They are the people of that of
that area led by generals of the
previous army. They are not sectarian.
They don't they have no agenda in in in
in religion. They actually want to
protect the people. They want to show
themselves to be better than Maliki. And
as you know, Iraq was a secular state
all of its life until the Americans came
to Iraq, turned it into a theocratic. We
have now more turbaned men in in in
parliament and more covered women in
parliament than anywhere than even in
Iran. So this is it doesn't matter what
we can accuse them. It's the Americans
have adopted this line. You know,
everything that has gone bad, it's the
Iraqis have done it. The Americans
haven't done anything wrong. Madlin
Orbright said she thought quarter of a
million dead babies is a price worth
paying to get rid of Saddam Hussein. As
if Saddam Hussein to her was something
important. Now he is dictator. Okay,
fine. But he's an Iraqi. He has more
right there than Bush and Albright and
including the rest of the Western powers
in Europe, in the UK and other
countries. Fascinating. Thanks very much
indeed, Sabah Mktar, for that. After the
break, we'll be talking about a Trojan
horse. Or is it a Trojan hoax? We'll be
right back.
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Welcome back to Sputnik. It is no less
than an outbreak of McCarthyism in
Britain based on a forged document. A
hoax called Trojan horse has sparked an
unprecedented wave, a witch hunt against
an ethnic minority, Britain's two
million Muslims. Sure, there are a few
white Muslims in Britain, but mainly
their faces say their name is Abdul or
Fatima. This racism doesn't come from
the far right or paramilitary thugs, but
from the state and its mass media,
Pavlovian dogs. Britain's Muslims today
are watching with mounting fear and
alarm as one by one high achieving
co-religionist are being dragged out,
pillaried and sacked. The Trojan horse
hoax deals with schools mainly in
Birmingham but spreading first to
Bradford then East London which are
overwhelmingly successful schools.
Schools which have transformed
themselves from sink schools to the top
of the league. schools where girls are
doing better than boys, where most of
the prefects are girls and ought to be
given a medal by the state. Indeed, they
were in just 11 months ago being
described by the government inspectorate
as outstanding. But we're invited now to
believe that in just months a Taliban
type offensive has swept all before it.
So much so that all of the major
participants in this drama, those being
named and shamed in the newspapers and
on television, are now afraid,
intimidated to come on television to
discuss it. After all, it could cost you
your job. So, we're going to do it
ourselves. Indeed, I believe that you
are personally involved in it. But
before we get into that uh part, please
explain us what is this Trojan horse
document all about and how did it all
start? It's a document that is widely
accepted now as having been a forgery, a
hoax, a kind of protocols of the elders
of Zion type hoax uh with no signature
on it found in a briefcase in a locker
and sent to a very large number of
people. This sparked the investigation
as they would call it the witch hunt. uh
as I would call it. It's now widely
accepted that it's a hoax, that it's a
forgery, but the investigations went on
anyway. And schools which just 11 months
ago had been declared to be outstanding
are now being denounced as a kind of
hotbed of incipient Islamic extremism.
Though there's no evidence at all beyond
the fact that on school trips, for
example, girls and boys traveled on
separate buses. Uh that uh at school
picnics, girls and boys sat at separate
uh picnic tables. Uh this is the kind of
nonsense that has been elevated
hysterically to a subject that is now
dominating the British news agenda every
single day uh for a week. Uh so the
Trojan horse was found to be empty.
Yeah. But in the classic witch hunting
style, the witchinder generals have gone
on looking and governors are being
sacked. Schools are having their funding
withdrawn. Schools that were outstanding
11 months ago are now being bankrupted
uh by the government and its uh official
inspectorate which is now openly acting
under political direction for the first
time ever in the history of this
country. This witch hunt uh after
Muslims happens after of course the win
of win of UKIP during the uh local and
European elections uh and the defeat of
the established parties. Is this a is a
convenient coincidence? I I believe it's
a direct dog whistle response by the
government to the rise of the UKIP
electoral bubble. They are saying to the
potential UKIP electorate, we are the
party that's tough on immigrants. We are
the party that's tough on Muslims.
Although there are a few white Muslims
in Britain, the vast majority of them
have brown and black faces. So when
people are looking around them
themselves in the street for uh some
kind of dangerous man or woman for that
matter, they know what to look for. Uh
they even look at people who are not
Muslims but are seeks and are frequently
thought to be uh Muslims. So there's a
very grave sense of unease amongst
Muslims like the ones uh I represent in
parliament, tens of thousands of them,
that they're somehow being targeted.
They're being attacked. And for what?
Because they prefer their girls to sit
at a separate uh uh picnic table. Let me
tell you, this is a recipe for Yeah. I
sent my own daughter to a girl's school
because I didn't want her distracted by
talking to boys. This would now qualify
me as a as an al-Qaeda commander. Uh and
generations of u high achieving
middleclass parents, white parents,
non-Muslim parents have sent their girls
to these girls schools precisely because
you're in school to learn. And the girls
and boys in these schools were learning
in an unprecedentedly successful way.
One of them for example Parkside in uh
Birmingham uh was one of the highest
achieving schools in the entire country.
This from just a few years ago being a
sink school that everybody had ignored
and forgotten. You mentioned Birmingham
and you mentioned Bradford and also East
London in your introduction. These are
all three areas which you and the
respect party represented. Is that a
coincidence? Uh well a point made in the
London Times uh this very morning. Now
the the times used to be the Journal of
Record. It's kind of fallen on hard
times now. It's the sort of far coat of
the Murdoch Empire part of the Fox News
Sun newspaper uh empire. But in an
editorial uh this very morning, a whole
editorial dedicated to me in which it
explains that actually the three places
where these problems are manifesting
themselves have one thing in common.
I've represented all of them uh in
parliament uh or tried to. Now the uh
reality is these are three areas where
there are large numbers of immigrants,
large numbers of Muslims. That's the
common denominator, not the fact that a
lot of them have in the past voted uh
for me. Michael Gove has announced that
all schools henceforth will have to
teach British values. Now, I've asked in
parliament, what are the values that are
specifically British that are going to
have to be taught by teachers? Is it the
values that have destroyed Iraq? The
values that are supporting al-Qaeda in
Syria? The values that supported the
terrorist uprising in Kiev in the
Ukraine? Is it the values of an empire
on which the sun never set because God
would never trust the British in the
dark? What values are specifically
British that are going to have to be
taught? They say that one of them is
tolerance, but of course it's emerging
out of a swamp of intolerance of people
who dress differently, eat differently
and pray differently to the majority uh
in this country. So it's a very very
serious uh development and it's one
which will lead as all these kind of
bruhahas do to blood because before long
yes mosques will be attacked Muslims
will be attacked and the mindset of the
attackers will be these people are
taking over our schools these people are
trying to talibanize our uh our cities
and it's all based on a hoax on a
forgery which is a very very serious
turn of events but there's a big
critical uprising against it too right
well I hope so I'm waiting uh for it the
Muslim population has gone to ground no
leader of the Muslim community uh can be
found to come out fighting uh on this uh
I'm doing my best in parliament uh and
with others uh in Birmingham One of my
former colleagues, Salma Yakub, has set
up a hands-off Birmingham schools
movement and she's doing a terrific job
on on that. Uh we're organizing a series
of public meetings in East London, in
Birmingham, and of course in my own
constituency in Bradford. We're trying
to answer this. The problem in Britain
is unachieving schools, underachieving
schools. The fact that not enough money
is being spent on the teachers and the
equipment and the buildings to make our
schools fit for the 21st century. And
actually to eviscerate
schools which are actually doing well
shows the kind of priorities that the
British government uh has. It's all over
social media, of course. What's been
rattling on ours on this? Well, yes. Um,
we asked uh the people what turned out
to be inside this Trojan horse. To which
Fred do said, nothing but Tory intent to
create fear, foster suspicion, and keep
us divided. And Shirona answers,
anti-UKIP repellent. Ah, anti-UKIP
repellent. That's a very good and
concise way of saying what I tried to
say. Just if I may continue to um
comment on the Iraq u developments
because we asked whether the fall of
Mosul to al-Qaeda uh affiliates make
prosecution of Blair imperative to which
Roger the Dodger answers the puppet
masters of this orchestra are the
Saudis, the CIA being the conductors and
ISIS are just the hired guns. And our
own beloved William Hake answers, "Now
that we negotiate with terrorists, I'm
going to suggest we swap Blair for some
oil." Well, this is of course the great
irony. The people who say they're most
concerned about Islamism are the people
who have fantastically inflated the
problem of Islamist extremism. They are
the people who invaded and destroyed
Iraq. They are the people who invaded
and destroyed Afghanistan. They are the
people who backed the fanatics in Syria,
who have destroyed Syria, and they have
the nerve to accuse those of us who
opposed them on all of these three
issues of somehow being a font of
Islamist extremism. Well, unfortunately,
that's all we've got time for. Do please
keep in touch with us on Twitter at
RT_Sputnik and on Facebook you can like
us on Sputnik on Russia Today. It's
goodbye from me, Gatri, and from me,
George Galloway. It's been marvelous.
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